A Secret History of the Coffee Technicians Guild

By HYLAN JOSEPH

The founding of the Coffee Technicians Guild really is interesting.  One of the SCA staff who has been there since the beginning is Mansi Chokshi. Recently her position was modified and I decided to get the band together and do an interview that talks about some of the Guild’s difficulties, history and accomplishments in our short history  

Hylan Joseph - I came up with five simple questions. Mansi, you have been crucial in holding this all together.  I wanted to give you a lot of credit and talk about our history a bit. I know you're not going away, but you've been an incredibly important part of the guild and growing the guild. I just wanted to speak to that with the questions, are you okay with this? I know you tend to be very humble about these things.

Mansi Chokshi- Yeah, I don't know. It does feel a bit weird because it's like my job too. I don't know. I'm happy to help you out with something that helps other people understand the guild founding. That makes sense to me.

HJ - The first question is please speak to your role in founding and working with the guild. The question is basically for both of you.

MC - Okay. Cool. All right, speak to the founding and my role. Yeah, because this was presented to SCA as a need, that's where I stepped in because my role at the time was to support the guild and the development. It was different because I was never involved in creating or developing the other guilds. I joined SCA in 2008. By that time there was already a barista guild and there was already a roaster's guild. My role was to support their development. But I had not been involved from the point where they had zero members and founders only. It was different with the CTG because that was a different opportunity that we had. We were creating something from nothing for this group that also felt like they didn't have a home within the SCA as well. It was all part of Allied Products and Services but there wasn't really a specific home for technicians. It was all new and we were just kind of creating the path forward. Does that answer it?

HJ - It does. Shad, do you have anything to add to that?

Shad Baiz - Well, this all could be glowing thanks and stuff like that. But at the very beginning I think that the coolest part when Mansi came into the office and Rick told her about what was going on. It was the enthusiasm and the open arms that she offered for helping us. It was immediate, “yes, let me know what I can do and here's how I think we can start”. That was amazing. 

HJ - Yeah, you rocked that first. Because there was so much that me and Shad didn't know about the bylaws, elections and getting boards together that I know I would've been lost without. Our calls and our emails teaching us how to do it. The next question, can you speak to the process of how we started the guild? What did it take to get going? Like what were the building blocks?

MC - I think the internal and external buy-in was the next step in the process. If I recall correctly, it was cool because Rick was already on board. Getting staff buy-in wasn't as difficult when your CEO is on board with helping to create this. What it did require was  getting support from somebody in marketing, getting support from somebody in our communications team. And just having all of that align and put it down on paper. If you remember, we created the guild formation process. And Cara was actually one of the people that put down on paper everything that the staff was saying is required when you are putting… When you're working with a guild. She put that together based on what all of us were talking about. Internally that was super helpful because we've never had anything to start a guild before. We never had a document to guide that process. Then we kind of took that and kicked it over to the other group, the founding group, and made sure that it made sense that way too. That's a hard job, the community buy-in. Like we were trying to get the entire community to understand that there is not just a need for this but there is a mutually beneficial outcome which is difficult in all parts of our industry because we're a unique association in general. We have a lot of competitors and they go across the supply chain. Our initial start for that was creating the structure and the process, but then involving everyone, making sure they felt included. And I would say that, looking back at that, the biggest thing that we probably missed, which we had an opportunity to redo the right way, I guess we can say a little bit later, but we missed the fact that there was… We were focused on the US. We were based here. we included all the manufacturer reps and distributors that we had contacts with, but a few months later when unification came along, we realized we had not involved the European manufacturers. So then there was a restart that we had to do. But, fortunately, we had the process already taking form and shape. And so all we had to do was implement that again on a global scale. But that was definitely, looking back at it, that was probably like we had moved forward and we had to move a little bit back to move forward again, just because of that little misstep.

HJ -This is for both of you, but what do you think the big hurdles were? And I know…

MC & SB - Unification.

HJ - I was going to say, I knew unification was a big merger but you kind of spoke to some of it. What else? I know getting buy-in after Rick was a little hard, but was there anything else that you can think of?

MC - Unification is the top one for me. And it wasn't… I don't want it to seem like we forgot about the global community, but we focused on the US because there was a need for representation within the US. And we were looking at things that were obvious. Like, hey, when we come to Expo there's all these gatherings for other types of professionals, but not technicians. We had identified the gap, but it was not something that we had taken on in that global scale. And it does get more complicated because the needs and the gaps are very different as you approach it from different countries. I think that's where… It seems like an overly simplified answer, that unification was our biggest hurdle, but I think it was in the sense that it opened so many different challenges that I don't think I had realized that existed. And that really came to fruition when we explored it through that global lens.

SB- Yeah, I think you're right because the first year, even though there was a lot of work that we did, it was so easy because everybody was so eager to help. And it wasn't until unification that then everybody got put back on their heels and we are like, wait, this is so much bigger and so much more challenging. When I say something, I don't just get… I will use the royal we here, I guess, but you don't just get immediate support for an idea, you get challenges from other parts of the world where they don't see it the same. And that was the first time. I think up until then, everybody had such extraordinary momentum just because they all recognized the need so strongly. Hopefully that supports the answer.

HJ - I would agree. I felt that we really had a lot of movement. I think we could've gone a lot faster if we had delayed our involvement in the merger. I know that we couldn't do that, but it felt like it put us back a lot, more than we were expecting.

SB - We were still the first unified guild.

HJ - We are innovative.

MC - There is one more thing that I think is kind of more indicative of the industry for technicians. And that was the issue that came to a head that, hey, this isn't a super diverse group of individuals. And I think that spoke to gender diversity as well as representation of different races. This was really a big topic for the US, of course. 

SB - That's right.

MC- But it was even more prominent when we went international, when we went global. And I think, I'm proud of this, I think that the guild has done specific things to combat that and to support bringing in diversity. And if you look at our composition of the board now, if you look at our general activities, the people that come to them from the first one over to the last summit that we had, you can see that there has been a tremendous effort and support to showcase that. And you can see it in the representation of the people. I feel like that hurdle was presented. It wasn't necessarily something that we created as a problem, but it was something that we took on as, okay, let's figure out what to do and with different types of things. Just a meet up for women technicians, the spotlight on women techs in the blog, the complete outreach for supporting nominations or candidates that are more diverse and more represented. I think that that was a very strategic thing that the leadership took on. And what I mean to say is that it wasn't their problem, but it was absolutely something that we focused on. And I think that we see some improvement in that, like nobody can deny that part.

SB -Yeah, the scholarship program work.

MC -Yeah. The scholarship, yeah, thank you. Exactly.

HJ - I think the fact that we, early on when this all came up, everybody on the board showed their willingness to reach out and try and solve the problem. And it was with positive solutions and not just Band-Aids over it. It worked out really well too. I remember when that first board was elected, how much crap we took on Instagram for it. Do you guys remember those messages?

SB - Oh yeah.

HJ - And it's like here we are a group, and it's like, hey, if you can find us diversity, we want it. And it felt like early on it was so hard to explain that to people first before implementing things to ensure that that's what we were representing.

MC -That's why the strategy is so important. I think that we didn't take that offensively. We kind of accepted, yeah, our industry isn't as diverse. Let's focus on that and figure out ways that we can include more people into this versus just fighting coffee Twitter on it. Because that didn't do us any good. And we absolutely stuck to the ground of like, okay, we accept this. We accept that it's not like this and we are going to work on it. And I feel like every year we added programs and we vetted that toward that was a goal of ours. And we vetted everything and all the activities that we added to make sure that we were addressing that. It's not a solvable thing. This is an industrywide issue and it stands beyond industry as well. So it's not something you can just be like, we are going to solve this. But it was very obvious that this was an issue. I don't think the CTG had to take that on, but we did, and I feel like it was… We've done a good approach to resolving some of that as best as we can. And I don't think it stops there. But we've set a foundation that reflects us moving in that direction through all the activity that we do going forward.

HJ -Yeah, I would agree.

SB -Nice.

HJ - Next question, what's your favorite guild story, and we will all tell one.

MC - Only one? 

HJ - I can think of 100. I have one specific but, I want to hear from you guys first.

HJ - You don't have to pick the best of best, but just a good one.

MC - Yeah I do, from my little album of things that I've enjoyed the memories of my time at SCA, I do feel like the steam valve challenge was really cool. It's something that I just never, ever thought I would do. I think that was really fun. I would put that as the top one. Not something I would've ever expected myself to do. But there are so many. 

HJ - I know, I know. It was hard. I have a specific one that's related to you, but Shad, what about you?

SB - It's not a story. My favorite moment though was the wrap-up of our very first… Wasn't even the summit really. I guess it wasn't the inaugural summit but the one at Marty Roe's place. And when he came out and thanked everybody for being there and was looking over the group and I was able to turn around and look at that group, that was an amazing feeling. Like we had accomplished a really key goal in the formation of the group. And then feeling Marty's emotion and looking at that group, it was also just this moment of promise. Like what we had started and what we had brought to that event was going to move forward. I'm sure I have a story, but they all get washed out by the after party. 

HJ - That's good.

SB - That was a fantastic moment. 

MC - It was. I do remember that. And I remember all of the folks going up and then signing the poster right after that, which was kind of cool to see.

SB - Yes.

HJ - That was a good story, Shad, I like that. Mine is when I first took over as membership chair during our first mixer and Shad came up to me about half an hour before the meeting and said, you're doing an update on stage. Remember that Shad?

SB<laugh>

HJ - No one believes this, but I am incredibly shy person. This was the one where Marty actually came up and stood next to me. But I couldn't have done it without Mansi's support. I was scared shitless. Had she not sat up there and Marty not supported me I would have passed out. 

MC - Not as scared as Shad was though.

HJ - It's true, he did kind of kill me. But I was scared. Until that moment, I had avoided public speaking like the absolute plague. And if it wasn't for your support, Mansi… and Marty coming up and holding my hand a little bit, I couldn't have done it.

MC - That's so great. I never would've guessed that you didn't-

HJ - It speaks to one of the reasons that I wanted to do this interview is it speaks to your commitment. You have such a strong commitment for this stuff, and you see past everything to support it. Believe it or not, not a lot of people would not have done that. And I would qualify it now as a life-changing experience because I have actually done a lot of speaking since then, part of it was because you made it seem so easy.

SB - Yeah, and you're great at it.

MC -You did great at it, yeah. Like I said, I never would've suspected that.

HJ - Oh yeah, I am deathly shy. Okay, last question. All of us, what do you guys feel like you learned walking away from this? We are not walking away from this, what do we feel like we've learned to date?

MC - That one's a hard one. I saw these and I don't remember that one. But I would say that every community is so different. I'm walking away from the CTG really inspired by the group of folks that, our technicians that are involved in this. I did not realize there was this much to that community. And I think it is really remarkable that I've been able to be with you all and learn from the group. But, yeah, every community is so different. And I think this group is really, it's a cheesy word, but it is a supportive group. It's very supportive. Both online and in person. Your role is a support role. I do think that it was kind of fun to learn about that and understand that thoroughly through your eyes. So I definitely leave with a newfound respect and understanding, a deeper understanding of how coffee works and the people behind it through the development of this guild. I also have learned about the fact that it takes a lot to create communities. Unification, this isn't just the guild, but it was absolutely one of the things that I had to first work on with the guild. Going global is so hard. And so I do walk away with a different type of appreciation for how, even though it's so diverse, it's so challenging to be diverse, there is so much good that comes out of it. And I got to see that in person. Like it wasn't people that were just backing away because, no, this is too hard, we just want to stay focused in the US. I've never heard that. And I think that that is so great because this group is so committed to seeing this through. It doesn't matter if it's a challenge. The fact is, that the community has to exist and we are trying to do whatever it takes to figure out how to do that. So it's been nice, even though it was super hard, it's been nice to see that outcome. 

HJ - That was awesome.

MC -I can add more later.

 HJ - Feel free. Shad, you're up.

 SB - First of all, I'm not walking away.

 HJ - None of us are walking away.

 MC - Right.

 HJ - I suspect we'll be here for quite a long time.

 SB - I think it's the same as what I said last time. I think it's interesting how much time it takes to get consensus. But it's still amazingly productive. Like taking a diverse, large group of people, taking the time and letting them talk, letting everybody get their piece out on the table is amazingly productive. Even though it never feels like it in the moment. So I think I learned patience at a brand-new level. And not just being campy about it, well, we've got to be patient because, geez Louise. I learned there is an extraordinary amount of quality and productivity that comes out of having a diverse group of people work together toward a common goal. And it's worth being patient for.

 HJ - Thank you. I think mine kind of speaks to Shad's. When I first talked to Shad about being a chair, his first response was like it's herding kittens. The patience thing is the biggest lesson because to work within this kind of framework, you're working with people who are volunteers and it's getting the buy-in and becoming a leader. Again, it's herding kittens. And I think for me it's really taught me to step as far away from my comfort zone as I possibly can to get the consensus, to make it work, to get everybody happy and to look forward. And I'm always blown away, to speak to what you said, Mansi, I'm always blown away by how much this guild is about support. Think about the responses that we've had on the COVID stuff that we've done. It's been pretty substantial. So I think it would be patience and really the importance as a leader and as a manager that you absolutely have to step out of your zone of comfort to succeed. And with that, you guys are free of questions. Do you have anything you want to say before we wrap it up?

 SB Oh yeah. I want to acknowledge too is that patience and stuff, a lot of the stuff that I learned came from Mansi. She has been like the shadow chair this whole time. Pushing at it and keeping us on track.

 HJ - I would agree with that.

 SB-And also when it seems like you get frustrated, she's like, don't even worry. It takes time. This is how it happens. Don't worry. This is the process. Truly amazing. You are a true visionary, Mansi.

 MC Thanks.

 HJ You have this amazing ability, Mansi. You've been a guiding light for a lot of the stuff that we have been trying to put through. And because of your encouragement we have pushed through a lot of stuff that I wasn't sure that we could push through. You have an amazing ability to digest it really fast and then come back with an actual, empirical answer. Not one that's like, well, this is… This is what I think, but it's really obviously that you've actually given it a lot more thought than that one second. And it makes our job so much easier to get things done when there is somebody like you. You should've gone into politics, Mansi. You'd make a great White house Chief of Staff.

 MC - Not too late, right?

 HJ Not too late, no. There's an election coming up, maybe. But I was reading this book on the gatekeepers and actually it talks about all of the chiefs of staff the last 30 odd years. And it was interesting reading that. And I was thinking to mind comes some of the skills you have about the ability to translate what people are saying into what they are actually saying. You are a fantastic listener. And that is very rare in our society today.

 MC I'll tell you, I think it's definitely an empathy trait that comes quite naturally to me. It's just like trying to describe empathy as putting yourself in somebody else's shoes. And it's absolutely, exactly like… I actually don't always listen to what people are saying. I'm just feeling what they're saying. And I'm like, okay, they are doing this because something else. Something else is the problem. Those words aren't really real because I'm feeling some other type of weird energy from them. And I think a lot of people are like, oh, I can't be empathetic, I don't know how to do that. I actually don't think it is something that you… You can practice that and you can support… I actually believe that anybody can help themselves feel that. It takes some practice and patience. You have to realize that somebody coming at you, we've had those argumentative meetings where people are saying some pretty harsh things to each other. And a lot of times it's the ability to take what they are saying at face value, but then also moving back and saying, why are they coming at me like this? Because you are all there as volunteers, you are there for the same goals, the same reasons. Some people show up, some people don't. It's a lot of varied things. And it's human nature to take some of that stuff personally. But I think if people remember that main goal of why we're here, what we are trying to accomplish, what we are trying to do and then you step back from that and realize, okay, this is what they are saying and spend a little extra time trying to figure out why that person is reacting that way, a lot of those conflicts get rested. And sometimes it is just time. Like let them blow off steam and let them walk away and come back. But, yeah, I definitely appreciate that. I do realize that that's something that I do work on a lot is just trying to realize what people are trying to say versus what they actually said. And sometimes it's a risk. Sometimes you don't know for sure. So you're taking a guess. And some people aren't willing to accept that that's what they're trying to say.

 HJ - Yeah. It's definitely something that I picked up from you and I use in my mannerism more than I used to.

 SB - That's cool.

 MC - It's good. I'm glad you are because I think the work that we are doing as volunteers, what you guys are doing as volunteers, the work that SCA tries to put forward, at the end of the day it's helping people belong to something bigger than themselves, seeing that it's going to go beyond their year. That's what this is all about. And I think as soon as people get aligned with that, then we are all thinking clearly and on the same path. Sometimes company business agendas get in the way, people's personal agendas get in the way. Those are inevitable. It's just about getting people back on the right track.

 SB - Well said.

 HJ - Actually, really well said. You should be Chief of Staff. That's all I've got. Thank you guys for coming. I really, really appreciate it. It's been an incredibly fun ride so far and I'm looking forward to the future. And Shad coming back into the fold here in the next year.

 MC - What are you taking up Shad, what's that secret about?

 SB - No secret, I'll work my way back in at some point.

 HJ Mansi, what position are you going into?

 MC - It's not a different position. We are just restructuring. I still have the same title, still the same role even. But it's going to be more based on supporting the communities that haven't gotten a lot of support from SCA. So it's the competition bodies that are in the Latin America region. So Central and South America. Including Canada and US, our chapters there. We only have two chapters and the rest of the groups that we have, they are competition bodies. So it's new. I mean, we haven't really supported them beyond asking them for their license fee and letting them host international competitions. So it's different, but I think we are… The SCA is realizing, or maybe have realized and just haven't had a way to do it, but these are all our different communities. And so we are just trying to expand. Let Richard support the guild because they are at a good space. And then let some of the more experienced community directors go into these spaces that are really unknown for us. So I'm still here, I'm still not… Richard and I are still very much on the same team. So we'll be talking all the time. So I wouldn't worry. We are totally connected.

HJ- I'm not. We still do our meetings right now too until we can make it all happen. You guys, thank you for your time. We are getting on past half an hour. Thank you for your time.